E&OE TRANSCRIPT ABC Sydney Drive with Chris Bath 20/10/2025 – Monday Political Forum
RADIO INTERVIEW
MONDAY, 20 OCTOBER 2025
SUBJECTS: Prime Minister Albanese meeting with President Trump, Critical Minerals, Barnaby Joyce
CHRIS BATH: And joining me today, Julian Leeser, a Liberal MP for Berowra. Julian, thanks for being here.
JULIAN LEESER: Good to be with you, Chris.
BATH: Mehreen Faruqi, the Green Senator for New South Wales and Deputy Leader of the Greens. Mehreen, lovely to have you back.
MEHREEN FARUQI: Lovely to be with you, Chris.
BATH: And Susan Templeman, Labor MP for Macquarie. Good afternoon, Susan.
SUSAN TEMPLEMAN: Good afternoon.
BATH: Now this time tomorrow, we will know the outcome of Anthony Albanese's much anticipated meeting with Donald Trump in the Oval Office. The timing does appear to be fortuitous for Australia. The US needs critical minerals. It may no longer be able to source from China, and we have them, albeit without much processing capacity. What are the opportunities and potentially the dangers for Australia here? Julian, let's start with you.
LEESER: Well, this is a very important meeting. It's been more than 330 days since President Trump was elected, and neither he nor the Prime Minister had a proper sit down together. And we've been urging on the Prime Minister to do everything that he could to achieve a face-to-face meeting because relationship between Australia and The United States is absolutely vital. The United States is our key trade partner. It's a key security partner, and we need to ensure that the Prime Minister successfully secures assurances Australia needs on AUKUS, on trade, on international partnerships, and on national security. It's a meeting we would have liked to have seen come sooner. We want to see the Prime Minister stand up for our national interest. We want it to be a successful meeting.
BATH: So you don't think the timing is better for us now?
LEESER: Look. The timing the best time for this meeting to have occurred would have been very early in in the president's tenure, and this this should have been one of many meetings he's had.
BATH: I mean, he was pretty rabid about tariffs at that point.
LEESER: Well, that's why Australia needed to be there at that time putting the case that that we needed to cut a special arrangement in relation to tariffs. We should have we should have been putting our case, and we put we put that strongly before the election that the Prime Minister should have gone there and built a relationship with the president as several other nations did in order to get to special real special deal in relation to tariffs that Australia didn't get.
BATH: We got one though -10%.
LEESER: We well, but we should have been able to put our own case, and the Prime Minister should have put that case directly. And Australia isn't just some other nation. The Prime Minister sorry - The President of The United States met with countries like South Africa. He met with countries like Italy. Australia's a quad partner. The ANZUS alliance is one of the key alliances for The United States. Australia has been a key security partner. We're one of the five eyes partners. We're not just some other nation, and the prime minister really should have gone and put the case for tariff reductions, put the case for AUKUS directly. We wish him well in relation to the discussions that they might have on critical minerals here. This is very important, and we've been calling on the government to develop a critical minerals plan. We took a critical minerals plan to the last election because we understand the importance of critical minerals. We know Australia is a critical mineral soup superpower, and we want to see not only critical minerals developed for our own purposes, but for the purposes of our allies and trading partners.
BATH: Mehreen Faruqi, what do you think the opportunities and potentially the dangers for Australia are in this meeting with Donald Trump?
FARUQI: Well, Chris, the weekend across the US, millions of people rallied against Trump's leadership, and they warned about the country's slide into authoritarianism. So for me, honestly, it's a bit cringe that a prime minister's approach is to try and fan the ego of Trump and to flatter him. Like, people I talked to on the streets are pretty embarrassed by this approach of indulging Trump and his ego while millions are fighting back against Trump's, like, anti-democratic ways and agenda. I mean, we're already giving The USA $375 billion for AUKUS with nothing to show for it, honestly. And now the prime minister might chuck in our critical minerals to sweeten the worst deal ever made. The Greens position has been very clear on AUKUS. We need to get out of it. Nuclear subs deliver no security, no guarantees, only risk and danger. So we should really be thinking about kind of forging our own independent foreign policy and the billions of dollars that have gone into AUKUS it should just end, and that is money that should fund housing, schools, universities, hospitals. I mean, does anyone seriously trust that Trump will put Australia's interest ahead of his own? So, truly, I think I feel like this is like you know, this is going to go nowhere for Australia.
BATH: Susan Templeman, mean, does Julian Leeser have a point? Should the Prime Minister have met with Donald Trump earlier?
TEMPLEMAN: Look, I have a bit of a different view from both your other guests. I think this is turned out to be a really good time for this conversation to happen. We've all seen the Trump administration settle a little bit. They've got some things out of their system and, you know, working through some more complex issues. And I think - I can't predict what's going to be discussed and nor would I want to, and I'm not going to predict what the outcome is. But I think the timing means we've all had time to think about how to approach this meeting and to understand what really might be key things as we evolve the relationship with The United States, which we have had for a really long time. Presidents have come and gone, and our relationship has stayed very solid. So this is a good time. Yes. You're right. By this time tomorrow, we'll all know. But we're not anticipating the sort of challenges that some of the early visitors had when things were a bit more unpredictable. But, you know, time will tell.
BATH: Yeah. It's interesting. We had Phil Coorey chatting on the show around 04:30, the Fin Review's political editor, and he was saying, look. He thinks Australia is a lot more worried about this than Donald Trump is - that Mr Trump's kind of got bigger fish to fry really than a meeting with us. He's not really expecting anything much to come out of this. But one of the things that has been speculated about is critical minerals and rare earths and the opportunities for Australia here. The government has already invited American co-investment in processing particularly and included direct subsidies and tax incentives in that. Do we need American investment, or is this something we could do ourselves? Mehreen?
FARUQI: Chris, mining companies for decades and decades have been stripping this country of natural resource wealth while making massive profits and not paying their fair share of tax. And I'm talking about fossil fuels here, destroying the planet as well. So we don't need to go down the same route with critical minerals. Yes. Critical minerals are essential for our transition to renewable energy, and the benefit must be reaped, by the people, in this country, while making sure that we have strong environmental laws, which the prime minister killed off in the last term of government.
BATH: So you but we don't have a lot of processing facilities here. Do we need American investment to help us with that?
FARUQI: Well, we should be developing. We've, you know, talked about manufacturing in Australia, and the Labor government had a big agenda on manufacturing. So we should be doing that here with our own building our own capacities and capabilities.
BATH: Julian Leeser, if we are, you know, trying to increase manufacturing in Australia and be self-sufficient here in what is, let's face it, an increasingly uncertain world, do we need American investment here to help us process critical minerals and rare earths?
LEESER: Australia's long welcomed foreign investment in this country, and America's often been a key source of that foreign investment. And, look, America is one of our key allies. It is our most important ally, and it's a key trading partner. And if and if we can't do it alone, then we have to look for foreign capital to help us bring these bring these critical minerals from the ground and to process them and the like. And they are going to be so important in in future technologies, everything from smartphones to clean energy technology to advanced systems that that that companies will need in the future. This is why it's such a great opportunity for Australia, and we shouldn't be reluctant to see this industry grow and thrive. And if that includes foreign investment, then as a liberal, we've always been in favour of foreign investment, and The United States has been a reliable source of that foreign investment in this country.
BATH: How careful do we have to be about this, though? China's our biggest trading partner. The US probably still remains strategically an important partner for us. Do we have to be mindful that in negotiating over critical minerals and rare earths with The US that we don't offend China?
LEESER: We've always got to put Australia's interest first, and the development of a critical minerals industry here provides a real opportunity for Australia for export dollars, for jobs, for revenues, and so on. And it's in Australia's interest to do this. And, you know, The United States has been a critical security partner and has been a critical trading partner for Australia, and it would surprise no one to have United States investment in this country in critical minerals.
BATH: Susan, is the government mindful of putting parameters around this to ensure that it doesn't go the way of the gas export deal that says billions of dollars of Australia's sovereign wealth lost?
TEMPLEMAN: Well, we're always mindful of how we get the best deal for Australians. And, of course, we need foreign investment or capital. It may not be offshore, but the amount we need, I understand, is significant because we're great at digging this stuff up out of the ground, but we haven't got the capacity yet to do the sort of processing we need. But, you know, we pumped $5 billion into the critical minerals facility, and that's really to support the private sector and any international partners with some upfront capital costs of projects and to give them confidence so they can continue to invest. And, really, the timing of this means that it is something, you know, with some of the actions that China has done, it's a good time for us to be saying to the world, hey, guys - we've got this stuff and we are really willing to work with you so that we can, get benefit for our citizens, but also contribute to a global supply chain.
BATH: You're listening to the Monday political forum on 702 ABC Radio Sydney Drive. Susan Templeman, the Labor MP for Macquarie is here. Mehreen Faruqi, the Greens Senator for New South Wales and Deputy Leader of the Greens, and Julian Leeser, the Liberal MP for Berowra. Mehreen, I know you'd like to see AUKUS completely trashed and banished, but potentially, there may be another AUKUS down payment, you know, on the table when mister Albanese meets with mister Trump. If the PM offers that up, how do you think that'll play out domestically?
FARUQI: We know that the movement, you know, against AUKUS and the anti-war movement is getting bigger and bigger. There there's been so much commentary on what a dud deal this is. So rather than sinking more money into that and I know that Susan was earlier talking about we need money from, you know, other places. Well, we have $375 billion that we have, you know, committed to AUKUS. We cannot - we can cancel that deal, and that money can be used for things for people in this country. And, I mean, I'm just kind of flabbergasted a little bit. Here we are talking about a deal, with Trump who is like a fascist authoritarian, anti-democratic leader. Millions of people in his own in his own country are rallying against him. We should stay away from as far away from Trump as we possibly can and become independent Well from US foreign policy.
BATH: Strategically, he's a pretty important partner for Australia. Well, The US is regardless of who's in control. So we do actually have to negotiate with The US and surely have discussions with them.
FARUQI: Of course, we can have discussions with them, but we don't have to give them on a platter our critical our critical minerals and $375 billion.
BATH: Julian Leeser, if we do put another AUKUS down payment on the table, how do you think that would play out domestically?
LEESER: Well, look, AUKUS is our most important security arrangement. It's important that we are able to provide a defence for ourselves, and we've got the technology to do that. It's a partnership not only with The United States, but with The United Kingdom as well. And it's a partnership that that should proceed in a in an orderly fashion. I'm unsurprised to hear Mehreen Faruqi being critical of The United States and being critical of AUKUS. The Greens don't like the US. They don't like the US Alliance. They don't like it doesn't matter who the president is. It doesn't matter what the particular security measure is. They're never in favour of taking measures to deal with our national security. They're never in favour of The United States. We on the in the Coalition take a completely different approach. We believe our national security is the first duty of the government, and we believe in a strong alliance with The United States. And AUKUS is the manifestation of that. It's an important security arrangement for Australia. It sets us up for the future, provides opportunities for Australia economically as well. I think it should proceed in an orderly fashion.
BATH: So the coalition would be okay if the prime minister gives The US more money at this meeting?
LEESER: Well, it should proceed according to what ever timetables have been said in order to bring it in to life.
BATH: You're listening to the Monday political forum here on 702 ABC Radio Sydney. I'm mindful of the time. I want to get to the other big political story of the day. Barnaby Joyce announced over the weekend that he won't contest the seat of New England at the next election. He's had a chat to Pauline Hanson. Here’s a mashup of some of what he's had to say this morning on TV and radio. He was doing the rounds.
BARNABY JOYCE (recording): In a matter of minutes, I've apparently resigned from the Nationals, which I haven't actually done yet, joined One Nation, which I haven't actually done, and then I'm leading within a few hours, I'm actually leading One Nation. Tony, I've been spoken to Pauline for a long while. I spoke to him when I was standing in Canberra. And then last night, I had a because we've everyone's talking about it, so I thought, oh, as well ring up and say hello since we're all since we seem to be the centre of every discussions. I'm not ruling in or out anything. Okay? I did I played that game last time. I'm not doing it this time. So you can say, are you considering becoming an astronaut? And I would say, I will not rule that out. You know, are you considering, you know, building submarines? I'm not ruling that out. Are you considering doing nothing and meditating under a fig tree? No. I'm not ruling that out. I'm not ruling in or out anything. I've even thought about becoming a compare for the ABC. I'm not ruling that out. (recording ends)
BATH: Barnaby Joyce there. Bit of a mash up of what he's had to say today. I do want to see him meditating under a fig tree. That would be interesting. I don't think I've ever seen him sit still. Susan Templeman, I know and Mehreen and Julian, I know that the three of you have been in parliament with Barnaby for a while. Susan, let's start with you. What's your read on what's going on here?
TEMPLEMAN: Well, it's kind of like the play that never ends, isn't it? And, clearly, for some people, when they're not on the front bench of their party, there might be some relevance deprivation. But I think we just sit back and go, you guys get on with your games. We take this stuff seriously. And so we are focused on the things that actually matter, you know, like housing and health and environment and jobs for Australians. So I just step back, throw my hands up, leave them to it.
BATH: Mehreen?
FARUQI: Chris, luckily, I haven't had the pleasure of working with Barnaby Joyce, and, frankly, I'd like to keep it that way.
BATH: Well, he might be with you in the senate if you listen to some of the reports.
FARUQI: Exactly. That's why I'm saying I'd like to keep it that way. So I guess you've got to think about, you know, when even the nationals can't put up with your antics. That's, like, a real sign of where you stand. I mean, I think Barnaby Joyce, I think Susan is right, is kind of out in the political wilderness trying desperately to find a way to, you know, keep relevant. I think he didn't get his way in the party and seems like he's spat the dummy and does seem to be shopping around with One Nation. But I think one thing that we need to really put on the table here and talk about is that at a time when Nazis are openly marching in our streets, when First Nations people are getting attacked, when Indian migrants are being spat at, harassed, and abused, and being targeted in this, you know, anti-immigrant far right movement, everyone should be worried about the rise of One Nation. Because groups like One Nation, at the end of the day, don't really have any solutions to the problems that people are facing, like housing and cost of living. So these merchants of hate find scapegoats like migrants to blame for everything, to feed hate and division. And Barnaby Joyce, if he does move over to One Nation, I think will be a triumph for them. But his electorate and voters should be pretty disgusted because they didn't vote for someone who would then go, if that does happen, join the most racist and climate denying political party.
BATH: Julian Leeser, at a time when Sussan Ley needs the Coalition as one, everybody on board, This can't be great news for you in in opposition. What's your read on what's happening here?
LEESER: Look. I think everyone needs to take a cold shower about this.
BATH: It's hard when it's Barnaby, though.
LEESER: But this is Barnaby. He's a colourful character. He's been in parliament twenty years now. That's a that's a long time. And in his age of life, it's reasonable that he look and think about, well, what might come next. All he has done today is effectively announced that he will not be seeking preselection for the state of New England for the next election. That is it. Everything else has been a matter of speculation, and you heard in the in the mashup that you played there the range of different things that might be speculated that Barbie might do in the future, including being a compare on the on the ABC. So watch this space. What it's a matter for him what he what he decides to do next. I wanted to acknowledge that that that he's made a significant contribution to Australian politics, that he's led his party, that he's been deputy prime minister. It's a time for reflection for him and his family, and I wish him well.
BATH: We haven't got much time left, but just before we go, we've seen Prince Andrew lose his titles and accoutrements that go with being a Royal over the weekend. He says he's voluntarily given them up, but it's taken a while since his long-proven relationship with paedophile sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein's been out there for a while, and you'd have to think it's timely given the release of the memoir of Virginia Giuffre. Should Prince Charles or King Charles, sorry, go a step further and strip prince Andrew of his prince title, Susan?
TEMPLEMAN: Oh, look. I think all that stuff around titles is a matter for the royal family. But more importantly, where laws have been broken, royals should face the same repercussions that commoners face. And I think that's really the substance when we talk about these sorts of things. I'll let I'll let the royalist, argy-bargy, about the titles.
BATH: Mehreen?
FARUQI: Chris, this whole thing is absolutely horrific and gross. I mean, it shows the rich and the powerful buy their way out of justice while victim survivors pay a huge price, sometimes with their life. So I think this is further proof that Australia should have nothing to do with them and cut our colonial apron strings and move towards a republic.
BATH: Julian Leeser, should Prince Andrew lose the title of prince as well? I know there's it's not legally possible at the moment, but potentially, King Charles could make that happen.
LEESER: Well, I I think, just in response to Mehreen's last comment there, Prince Andrew is never going to be King. He's a constitutional irrelevance so far as Australia is concerned. But, you know, I think it's very important to state that we need to have a zero tolerance on anybody who's been engaged in child sex offences. And indeed, what my last act as Shadow Attorney General before I was promoted to be Shadow Education Minister last week, was to try and introduce a private member's bill for mandatory minimum sentences of five years for people who are engaged in the production of distribution of online child sex materials. And, unfortunately, that, we were shut down in bringing that bill before the parliament. That bill will be reintroduced in the next sitting fortnight because, you know, it is an incredibly important duty of parliamentarians regardless of their political party, to stand up and, stand against, child sex offence and the perpetration of child sex offence wherever it may occur.
BATH: Julian Leeser, thank you very much for joining us, and congratulations on your promotion to Shadow Education Minister.
LEESER: Thank you.
BATH: And Mehreen Faruqi, lovely to have you back with us.
FARUQI: Always. Absolutely lovely to be with you, Chris. Thanks.
BATH: And Susan Templeman, thank you very much for joining us as well.
TEMPLEMAN: Thanks, Chris.
BATH: That's the Monday political forum for today.
