SUSAN TEMPLEMAN MP
SPECIAL ENVOY FOR THE ARTS
MEMBER FOR MACQUARIE
E&OE TRANSCRIPT
Afternoon Briefing, ABC
WEDNESDAY, 26 FEBRUARY 2025
SUBJECT: DUTTON’S SHARES, FOREIGN AID, CREATIVE AUSTRALIA
PATRICIA KARVELAS, HOST: Let's bring in my political panel for today. Labor MP Susan Templeman and independent MP for Wentworth, Allegra Spender. Welcome to both of you.
ALLEGRA SPENDER, MP: Thanks for having us.
KARVELAS:Let's start on the story that's been circulating today. Peter Dutton's shares and property purchases in the spotlight. Allegra Spender, Peter Dutton said he had always conducted himself with integrity. He faced questions, particularly about his share trading, including those bank share purchases declared the day before that government bailout during the global financial crisis. In your view, is this a settled issue or are there more questions to answer?
SPENDER: Look, I think this is really up to Peter Dutton. And to be honest, this has been playing out between the major parties. I'm not really going to pitch in onto that. And, you know, my focus has been and will probably continue to be, I hope, on the policies that we are missing in this electorate in this election, including many that I would like to see from the coalition. In terms of really important issues, not least the economy and how to actually manage it effectively.
KARVELAS: I absolutely get that. It's not, you know, your thing and you're not that interested. But you can make an assessment about whether you think a line of inquiry is fair or not. Does it seem fair to you to be for people to be asking questions about this?
SPENDER: I think it's fair to ask if, what he knew, in relation to the bank trades. I think that is fair. And yeah, I think that is a fair question.
KARVELAS: How about the property stuff?
SPENDER:I mean, he said that he's declared it. I mean, I'm not sure that there are questions there. I think that he's said that this is what he has. And so, you know, I guess I don't know really where that is going, particularly.
KARVELAS: Susan, you've heard there from Allegra Spender. She doesn't think that was necessarily worth pursuing, maybe on the banks more clarity. But in terms of Labor and what you're pursuing here, is this just about throwing mud?
SUSAN TEMPLEMAN, MP: I think this is about wanting to see accountability and transparency. You know, if there's nothing to see here, then why be so defensive about it? I've seen just over the last 24 hours extraordinary levels of defensiveness and attack of Labor on it and really just be open and honest about it and explain what you knew when you knew, when you knew. I think it's just getting those questions answered.
KARVELAS:Well, you said he didn't know. Hang on a minute. He's been clear. He says he didn't have any heads up or anything.
TEMPLEMAN: So indeed. And the other questions are, you know, what, how many transactions were there? Like, what was the volume of them? Like, why hide it? We're not required to disclose lots on our register. We are required to disclose that it happened. But if you're putting yourself forward as the leader of the country, I just wonder why is there such defensiveness about it? I think from the housing side, the issue for me is really here's someone who recognises the value of property and has been clearly very important to him. Yet this is the man who tried to stop us at every turn from doing things to help other people get into that property market and to increase supply. So I think all of these, and there are probably many other issues that certainly the liberals have never had any qualms in asking questions of our leaders and our side about these, you know, related sorts of matters. So it is simply be open and transparent. I think that's what people want to see in someone who's saying, hey, I want to be the leader of the country.
KARVELAS: Allegra Spender, just final question on this before we do move on, uh, is this the sort of election campaign we're going to have? Mud probably flung on both sides?
SPENDER: It does feel I certainly feels like it will be. Honestly, I was talking to a constituent today who said, you know what? I really hate this. I hate this, the sort of major party squabbling. And I don't like the finger pointing. I don't like the name calling. I think, you know, frankly, the behaviour of a lot of politicians is not what we are seeking.
KARVELAS: Okay, I want to move to another topic that actually came up, with David Coleman a little earlier. Just worth pursuing with both of you. First with you, if I can. Allegra. I asked him about foreign aid because foreign aid has been cut by the US in a very big way. Also, Keir Starmer, UK Labour prime minister, cutting foreign aid. I asked David Coleman if they're looking to do that too, the coalition. Wouldn't commit either way, but certainly didn't sort of guarantee that it wouldn't be touched. Would it be a mistake to cut foreign aid?
SPENDER: Look, I think it would be a mistake to cut foreign aid. I think your foreign aid is part of our soft power. And I know that, you know, we do need to focus on defence and defence spending, but we need to recognise that these, you know, our strategic power comes also from our ability to support and work with our neighbours, in particular our Pacific neighbours. We have had real problems with our relationships with Pacific neighbours in the past. I think we've dropped the ball in the past and that has meant, you know, particularly China has come into some of those countries. And I think it would be a real mistake to back away from those long standing partnerships, because also they're not simple things that to just build up again, you know, countries can't turn on a dime on this. And I think we'd leave a strategic gap.
KARVELAS: Yeah. Look, Susan, um, we don't know either way is the truth, but the coalition certainly wouldn't rule it out or rule it in. We just don't know what they're going to do on foreign aid. We know on defence they think that the spending should be brought forward, that it takes too long to get to Labor's 2.4% of GDP. Is that a valid criticism that it just takes too long to ratchet up that defence spend, given what we're seeing?
TEMPLEMAN: There's been consistent investment by us. And what's more, projects have actually been completed. And I've heard, comments from our defence forces about the really positive pace at which things are moving. What I want to say about foreign aid is I'm disappointed not to hear full throated support of our foreign aid programme It is vital for our own security, but we are also making a huge difference in a whole lot of places. I've been to see some of the programmes we've done and not when Labor was in government, but when the previous government was in the work that we've done in the West Bank, in, Palestine, in supporting women into business. So there is a whole range of economic support. There's women's health and men's health support that we do. There's, uh, things around, uh, that is to do with your, society and your respect for each other, right through to helping small businesses. And then that really important economic investment in a country that actually demonstrates to them that we care about them, we care about our neighbours, and it ties them to us. So I'm disappointed that this is even in question, that there is even some question mark bout it, because it's vital for our own security as well as for our neighbours.
KARVELAS: I just want to sort of pivot to this issue, which Afternoon briefing pursued a couple of days ago on the Climate Change Authority and Matt Kean's job. Now, for those viewers thinking, why does this matter? Matt Kean, of course, former minister in the New South Wales government for the coalition. So a Liberal who now has been appointed by the Albanese government into this key role, there's a suggestion he could be sacked as the climate authority chair. He's really said he wouldn't be bullied. Allegra Spender, but you obviously might have a very key role. As we've discussed before, if there is a minority government, is that sort of the thing, something that you would, you know, frown upon if the coalition were to sack Matt Kean?
SPENDER: Look, I think I'm really disappointed to see where the coalition's speaking on this. This is someone who is, you know, it was well respected, both financially, but also for his environmental credentials. He has been, I think, made a really useful contribution in a really important, independent part of government and to be attacking independent members of, our independent institutions, I think is really damaging. And when the, you know, the coalition is trying to say, hey, you know, we care about climate action, you know, it seems, well, we don't care about climate action to enough if someone's actually criticising us about it. I think it really calls into question their credibility. You know, the fact that the Climate Change Authority said that their plan would increase emissions by 2 billion tonnes is relevant to the Australian people. And I think, you know, the coalition shouldn't be afraid to talk about this if this is their plan. I don't understand if they're being upfront with people, why this is such an issue.
KARVELAS: Okay. I'm just going to ask a question in another area if I can of you, Susan, because you are the Special Envoy for the Arts, and I want to ask you about Creative Australia. And for those who haven't been following at home, I'll help you out. It's the body that decided to drop Australia's representative for the Venice Biennale, Khaled Sabsabi, after complaints about some of his older work that featured former Hezbollah leader and depicted 9/11as well. Now, overnight in Senate estimates, Creative Australia admitted that our Pavilion could end up empty at Biennale. I mean, at the Biennale, which is kind of staggering if you think about it. Has this decision caused more division?
TEMPLEMAN: Patricia, I think that the question you're asking me actually goes to the same issue that you just asked Allegra, and this is about a government that respects the independence of organisations. So, you know, this is about us being really clear that governments don't, make decisions about art. We are it should be at arm's length from government. And it has been and it should continue to be.
KARVELAS: Isn't this terribly embarrassing, though, for our arts community, our representation in Venice? Sarah Hanson-Young, who I'm about to speak to, says that the whole board should be spilt. Should there be actual action on what has been an embarrassing incident?
TEMPLEMAN: Well, these are decisions for the board, and the board has made the decisions and they are now reviewing that process. I think you can't just say we want independent decisions and we want things to happen at arm's length and then at some point suddenly say, oh, no, now we want government to intervene. These are incredible artists. I know it's been a really hard period for people, and I feel really sad about a whole lot of decisions that have been had to be made by Creative Australia. It's their choice to make them though. I do think this has been a really hard period for artists. It doesn't change for me the principle that this should sit with Creative Australia. This shouldn't be something where we come marching in and you know, try and do something different. And I think Tony Burke has made it very clear as minister that he would support Creative Australia in the decisions they make. Are there lessons to be learned from this? Well, I guess that's what the review that Creative Australia does will look at this process and they should be allowed to do that review and let's see what that review determines.
KARVELAS: Allegra, are you concerned about how this has unfolded?
SPENDER: Look I think it is. It's a real mess. I mean, no one would want to be in a situation where people are appointed and then, you know, that's revoked and, you know, the Biennale is going to be empty. So I think this is an absolute mess.
KARVELAS: Thank you to both of you. You're a great panel. Appreciate your time.
SPENDER: Thanks so much, Patricia.
TEMPLEMAN: Thanks Patricia.
ENDS
